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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Sounds fine,<br>
but we should thik about not callign this flavour here too to
prevent confusions.<br>
<br>
But this brings me to another point, it becomes standart that the
overrides.yml and overrides.rb ist part of the autoproj build
configuration. Therefore it's hard to define local overrides.
Could we maybe add a local-overrides.rb and local-overrides.yml
that will be checked by autoproj too?<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Matthias<br>
<br>
On 19.06.2014 11:38, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20140619093849.A5B1AA5AD8_3A2AFA9B@sea-mail.dfki.de"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">We basically would separate the flavor of rock.core
from the flavor of the rest of the packages. The only flavor
users would be asked about would be the non-core one and we
would automatically pick the rock.core one based on that (next
for next, stable for stable). People that would want 'master' on
rock.core would have to do it manually in their init.rb</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 4:37 PM,
Matthias Goldhoorn <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de" target="_blank">matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>...sounds good... but howto integrate this into the
flavored concept, simply not using flavors at all for
rock.core?<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Matthias
<div class=""><br>
<br>
On 18.06.2014 15:16, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr">One possible solution: decouple rock
master from rock.core master (different release
schedules). rock.core master would then become
really a development branch where people should not
fear to push tested but not heavily tested code.
<div> <br>
</div>
<div>The rules:<br>
<div>
<div>1. rock master CANNOT depend on features in
rock.core master. This ensures that the
current up-to-date packages are not dependent
on development features in the toolchain. This
is ensured by making people always use
rock.core next or stable.</div>
<div>2. rock.core master MUST stay backward
compatible, i.e. at the point of release of
rock.core, rock next should be usable with
rock.core master. In other words, releasing
rock.core (from master to next) should not
break existing 'next' applications.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thoughts?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sylvain<br>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at
2:02 PM, Matthias Goldhoorn <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de"
target="_blank">matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>-1 because for checkint our tree we
need master, on we simply remove it from
the server i'm sure people find ways like
in the overrides <br>
<br>
*:<br>
- branch: master<br>
<br>
to do such things.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Matthias
<div><br>
<br>
On 05.06.2014 13:23, Vincent vittori
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">+1 for removing master </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>2014-06-05 9:25 GMT+02:00
Alexander Duda <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Alexander.Duda@dfki.de"
target="_blank">Alexander.Duda@dfki.de</a>></span>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Am 05.06.2014 um 09:08
schrieb Matthias Goldhoorn
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de"
target="_blank">matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>>:</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
text="#000000">
<div>Good Morning,<br>
<br>
I don't know what
you mean with
resistance, in the
past master was the
most "stable"
version with the
newest features.<br>
Therefore there was
no resistance.<br>
<br>
Specially for
Syskit/Roby i not
posted all bugs,
most of the bugs i
workaround, but i
will start to create
bug-requests for
this...<br>
<br>
Regarding the new
functionality, you
are right, most of
these features are
not needed, they
make only the life
easier..., but if i
as developer see the
need of a feature
and implement it, i
want to use this
directly. I think
this is normal,
since the rock-devs
are not pure-rock
devs, work is done
if we feel that we
need enhancements...<br>
<br>
Maybe we should
rename the structure
or introduce a
experimental branch.
Phsychological i
have the impression
that "master" gets
associated with
"newest" not with an
"unstable
development"
version. Maybe we
should rename or
create an additional
"unstable" branch,
from where the
release policy to
master is not so
fixed windowed...<br>
<br>
example development:<br>
- work is done on
experimental and
pushed as soon as
the dev thing it
might work<br>
- experimental is
pushed to master, as
soon the responsible
dev thing his
changes work for all
(few days upto a
week?)<br>
<br>
Again i thing the
primary reasons why
most of all stays on
master ist that the
other branches does
not have the
"needed"("wished")
features, or they
have bugs that are
not pushed from
master<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>I have my doubt here.
None of the core packages
had major issues the last
couple of months forcing
people to use master for
the hole bootstrap. </div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
text="#000000">
<div> <br>
Thoughts?<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have the feeling we
should just remove master
as flavor. In this case
everyone has to bootstrap
next or stable and if
needed he/she can manually
overwrite specific
packages.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alex</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
text="#000000">
<div> Matthias<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 04.06.2014
17:00, Sylvain
Joyeux wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Then
... my next
question would
be:
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Why isn't
there more
resistance
w.r.t.
switching to
master ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I mean,
when you say
"oh I had a
bug on syskit
on next", did
you report it
as a
functionality
bug on next ?
Did you insist
that it should
be fixed *on
next* ?
instead of
switching to
master ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For new
functionality,
how much of it
is "oh but I
need X, it is
so shiny"
instead of
"without X, I
really cannot
do it !". I
mean, when I
worked on the
Orion I
*wanted* some
features from
master, but
quickly
realized that
I did not
*need* them. I
had what was
strictly
needed to get
the Joints
type (meaning
typelib/master
but
orogen/next)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As for the
release
schedule /
frequency, I
can only do
+1. Releases
are too far
apart.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My big
problem here
is that master
has become the
de-facto
version of
Rock that
everyone uses,
which really
hinders
possibility to
do some actual
development.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sylvain</div>
</div>
<div
class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">On
Wed, Jun 4,
2014 at 3:54
PM, Matthias
Goldhoorn <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de"
target="_blank">matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0
0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
text="#000000">
<div>
<div>
<div>On
04.06.2014
15:43, Sylvain
Joyeux wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Is
that everyone
seem to think
that they need
master. The
majority
should be
using stable
or next.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Now, I
*know* that
there are
reasons (there
are always
reasons) why
one might
think that
master is
required.
However, the
main question
for me is:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> How can
we make people
feel confident
that they can
use next ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Or</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> How can
we ensure that
'next' can be
used except
for a few
packages that
would go on
master ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The best
way to start
answering
these
questions is
to answer
another one:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Why are
you on master
?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
Because i
using syskit
and the next
version is
even more
unstable than
master. I had
several times
that the
depandancy
between
roby/syskit
and other
'core'
packages is
hard. So i
cannot stay a
long time on
next and only
with
syskit/roby on
master.<br>
Indeed i'm not
sure if i can
currently use
syskit/roby on
next and
everything
else on
master.<br>
<br>
So generally
speaking,
incompatibilities
between
syskit/roby/utilmm/utilrb/typelib/orogen/
base/types/(std)<br>
<br>
<br>
The Second
point, is that
the release
cycle to next
is to long for
new features,
i i (as
rock-dev) add
new features
to rock. I
take ofter
months before
it goes into
next.<br>
Therefore i
have (due to
the same
reasons above)
switch to
master, also
for other
members of my
project. I
would prefer a
shorter
release time
between
master/stable/next...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Matthias
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sylvain </div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
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<pre cols="72">--
Dipl.-Inf. Matthias Goldhoorn
Space and Underwater Robotic
Universität Bremen
FB 3 - Mathematik und Informatik
AG Robotik
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28359 Bremen, Germany
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<td width="40%"><font
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<pre cols="72">--
Dipl.-Inf. Matthias Goldhoorn
Space and Underwater Robotic
Universität Bremen
FB 3 - Mathematik und Informatik
AG Robotik
Robert-Hooke-Straße 1
28359 Bremen, Germany
Zentrale: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20421%20178%2045-6611" value="+49421178456611" target="_blank">+49 421 178 45-6611</a>
Besuchsadresse der Nebengeschäftstelle:
Robert-Hooke-Straße 5
28359 Bremen, Germany
Tel.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20421%20178%2045-4193" value="+49421178454193" target="_blank">+49 421 178 45-4193</a>
Empfang: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20421%20178%2045-6600" value="+49421178456600" target="_blank">+49 421 178 45-6600</a>
Fax: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20421%20178%2045-4150" value="+49421178454150" target="_blank">+49 421 178 45-4150</a>
E-Mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@informatik.uni-bremen.de" target="_blank">matthias.goldhoorn@informatik.uni-bremen.de</a>
Weitere Informationen: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/robotik" target="_blank">http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/robotik</a></pre>
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<pre cols="72">--
Dipl.-Inf. Matthias Goldhoorn
Space and Underwater Robotic
Universität Bremen
FB 3 - Mathematik und Informatik
AG Robotik
Robert-Hooke-Straße 1
28359 Bremen, Germany
Zentrale: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20421%20178%2045-6611" value="+49421178456611" target="_blank">+49 421 178 45-6611</a>
Besuchsadresse der Nebengeschäftstelle:
Robert-Hooke-Straße 5
28359 Bremen, Germany
Tel.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20421%20178%2045-4193" value="+49421178454193" target="_blank">+49 421 178 45-4193</a>
Empfang: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20421%20178%2045-6600" value="+49421178456600" target="_blank">+49 421 178 45-6600</a>
Fax: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20421%20178%2045-4150" value="+49421178454150" target="_blank">+49 421 178 45-4150</a>
E-Mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@informatik.uni-bremen.de" target="_blank">matthias.goldhoorn@informatik.uni-bremen.de</a>
Weitere Informationen: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/robotik" target="_blank">http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/robotik</a></pre>
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Dipl.-Inf. Matthias Goldhoorn
Space and Underwater Robotic
Universität Bremen
FB 3 - Mathematik und Informatik
AG Robotik
Robert-Hooke-Straße 1
28359 Bremen, Germany
Zentrale: +49 421 178 45-6611
Besuchsadresse der Nebengeschäftstelle:
Robert-Hooke-Straße 5
28359 Bremen, Germany
Tel.: +49 421 178 45-4193
Empfang: +49 421 178 45-6600
Fax: +49 421 178 45-4150
E-Mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@informatik.uni-bremen.de">matthias.goldhoorn@informatik.uni-bremen.de</a>
Weitere Informationen: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/robotik">http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/robotik</a></pre>
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