<div dir="ltr">One possible solution: decouple rock master from rock.core master (different release schedules). rock.core master would then become really a development branch where people should not fear to push tested but not heavily tested code.<div>
<br></div><div>The rules:<br><div><div>1. rock master CANNOT depend on features in rock.core master. This ensures that the current up-to-date packages are not dependent on development features in the toolchain. This is ensured by making people always use rock.core next or stable.</div>
<div>2. rock.core master MUST stay backward compatible, i.e. at the point of release of rock.core, rock next should be usable with rock.core master. In other words, releasing rock.core (from master to next) should not break existing 'next' applications.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thoughts?</div><div><br></div><div>Sylvain<br><div><br></div></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Matthias Goldhoorn <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de" target="_blank">matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>-1 because for checkint our tree we
need master, on we simply remove it from the server i'm sure
people find ways like in the overrides <br>
<br>
*:<br>
- branch: master<br>
<br>
to do such things.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Matthias<div class=""><br>
<br>
On 05.06.2014 13:23, Vincent vittori wrote:<br>
</div></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">+1 for removing master </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">2014-06-05 9:25 GMT+02:00 Alexander
Duda <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Alexander.Duda@dfki.de" target="_blank">Alexander.Duda@dfki.de</a>></span>:<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br><div><div class="h5">
<div>
<div>Am 05.06.2014 um 09:08 schrieb Matthias Goldhoorn
<<a href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de" target="_blank">matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>>:</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Good Morning,<br>
<br>
I don't know what you mean with resistance, in
the past master was the most "stable" version
with the newest features.<br>
Therefore there was no resistance.<br>
<br>
Specially for Syskit/Roby i not posted all bugs,
most of the bugs i workaround, but i will start
to create bug-requests for this...<br>
<br>
Regarding the new functionality, you are right,
most of these features are not needed, they make
only the life easier..., but if i as developer
see the need of a feature and implement it, i
want to use this directly. I think this is
normal, since the rock-devs are not pure-rock
devs, work is done if we feel that we need
enhancements...<br>
<br>
Maybe we should rename the structure or
introduce a experimental branch. Phsychological
i have the impression that "master" gets
associated with "newest" not with an "unstable
development" version. Maybe we should rename or
create an additional "unstable" branch, from
where the release policy to master is not so
fixed windowed...<br>
<br>
example development:<br>
- work is done on experimental and pushed as
soon as the dev thing it might work<br>
- experimental is pushed to master, as soon the
responsible dev thing his changes work for all
(few days upto a week?)<br>
<br>
Again i thing the primary reasons why most of
all stays on master ist that the other branches
does not have the "needed"("wished") features,
or they have bugs that are not pushed from
master<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>I have my doubt here. None of the core packages had
major issues the last couple of months forcing people
to use master for the hole bootstrap. </div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div> <br>
Thoughts?<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have the feeling we should just remove master as
flavor. In this case everyone has to bootstrap next or
stable and if needed he/she can manually overwrite
specific packages.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alex</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div> Matthias<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 04.06.2014 17:00, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Then ... my next question would
be:
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Why isn't there more resistance
w.r.t. switching to master ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I mean, when you say "oh I had a bug on
syskit on next", did you report it as a
functionality bug on next ? Did you insist
that it should be fixed *on next* ?
instead of switching to master ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For new functionality, how much of it
is "oh but I need X, it is so shiny"
instead of "without X, I really cannot do
it !". I mean, when I worked on the Orion
I *wanted* some features from master, but
quickly realized that I did not *need*
them. I had what was strictly needed to
get the Joints type (meaning
typelib/master but orogen/next)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As for the release schedule /
frequency, I can only do +1. Releases are
too far apart.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My big problem here is that master has
become the de-facto version of Rock that
everyone uses, which really hinders
possibility to do some actual development.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sylvain</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 4, 2014
at 3:54 PM, Matthias Goldhoorn <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de" target="_blank">matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>
<div>
<div>On 04.06.2014 15:43, Sylvain
Joyeux wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Is that everyone
seem to think that they need
master. The majority should be
using stable or next.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Now, I *know* that there
are reasons (there are
always reasons) why one
might think that master is
required. However, the main
question for me is:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> How can we make people
feel confident that they can
use next ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Or</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> How can we ensure that
'next' can be used except
for a few packages that
would go on master ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The best way to start
answering these questions is
to answer another one:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Why are you on master ?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
Because i using syskit and the next
version is even more unstable than
master. I had several times that the
depandancy between roby/syskit and
other 'core' packages is hard. So i
cannot stay a long time on next and
only with syskit/roby on master.<br>
Indeed i'm not sure if i can currently
use syskit/roby on next and everything
else on master.<br>
<br>
So generally speaking,
incompatibilities between
syskit/roby/utilmm/utilrb/typelib/orogen/
base/types/(std)<br>
<br>
<br>
The Second point, is that the release
cycle to next is to long for new
features, i i (as rock-dev) add new
features to rock. I take ofter months
before it goes into next.<br>
Therefore i have (due to the same
reasons above) switch to master, also
for other members of my project. I
would prefer a shorter release time
between master/stable/next...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Matthias
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sylvain </div>
</div>
<br>
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